In this week's episode of Cleaning Up, my co-host Bryony Worthington sat down with Andrew "Twiggy" Forrest, Founder and Chair of Fortescue - self-made iron ore billionaire and hydrogen evangelist
I think it would have been a better interview if you were there for the challenge to exactly what the green hydrogen will be used for rather than the more simplistic reference to "thermodynamics" (let's hear a very specific claim about $ per kg), references to "using electrons directly" (Andrew totally gets that) and "biofuels" as a drop in for "niche" fuel requirements.
My understanding is that the green hydrogen will be used as a diesel substitute for haulpaks and perhaps shipping. Now whilst miners get a free kick by not having to pay fuel excise or a carbon tax on the use of diesel, it is still expensive in remote operations so the delta should have been discussed (plus an implied price for application of fuel excise and carbon tax when we come to our senses).
The second use is direct reduction of the iron ore to iron, so that he is shipping not his (relatively) low grade low value iron to be reduced with coal overseas, but a much higher value product with a lot of the carbon stripped out of the steel end product through hydrogen produced where used.
Also, nuclear.
Bryony loves nuclear. We get that. But it really is a pointless matter to raise in the Australian context. Labor just had a thumping election victory in part because of nuclear. This was finally brought forward not just as a concept but as a major election issue with the opposition providing studies, siting and timing. But Australians can count and regardless of the slight* difficulty we are having getting transmission built for a reasonable price, remains incredibly expensive (and too slow to implement) compared to firmed renewables in Australia.
Nice idea Hydrogen, but too expensive. Try Steele Environmental’s surfactant-based diesel fuel conditioner to get operating savings today with no Capex engine modifications required— and oh, emissions reductions today at no cost given operating savings. Then to really lower emissions with fuel savings, you can use www.Thunderstorm.tech to use plasma to disintegrate emissions. No need for Hydrogen, Ammonia for ships, disestablished trucks and trains with Thunderstorm. How many other technologies are out there that are economically and technically feasible today?
Unkind comments by Michael here about the guest speaker. I thought he was very measured and succinct. Moreover he made his fortune investing in iron-ore when most doubted it made sense and is putting his money where his mouth is
I did think while listening that you would be champing at the bit!
(Also if you make it to Australia this year, it would be great to say hi. Lots happening here!)
Absolutely, would love to catch up!
I look forward to listening and also noted your tentative plans to come to Australia. It would be terrific to get a chance to exchange perspectives.
FYI, we had Paul Martin on our podcast covering similar themes in April which may be of interest to you and your other listeners.
https://techtransfertalk.com/episode-46-my-favourite-martin-wrights-law-scaling-up-and-why-hydrogen-wont-decarbonise-energy-products-with-paul-martin/
I think it would have been a better interview if you were there for the challenge to exactly what the green hydrogen will be used for rather than the more simplistic reference to "thermodynamics" (let's hear a very specific claim about $ per kg), references to "using electrons directly" (Andrew totally gets that) and "biofuels" as a drop in for "niche" fuel requirements.
My understanding is that the green hydrogen will be used as a diesel substitute for haulpaks and perhaps shipping. Now whilst miners get a free kick by not having to pay fuel excise or a carbon tax on the use of diesel, it is still expensive in remote operations so the delta should have been discussed (plus an implied price for application of fuel excise and carbon tax when we come to our senses).
The second use is direct reduction of the iron ore to iron, so that he is shipping not his (relatively) low grade low value iron to be reduced with coal overseas, but a much higher value product with a lot of the carbon stripped out of the steel end product through hydrogen produced where used.
Also, nuclear.
Bryony loves nuclear. We get that. But it really is a pointless matter to raise in the Australian context. Labor just had a thumping election victory in part because of nuclear. This was finally brought forward not just as a concept but as a major election issue with the opposition providing studies, siting and timing. But Australians can count and regardless of the slight* difficulty we are having getting transmission built for a reasonable price, remains incredibly expensive (and too slow to implement) compared to firmed renewables in Australia.
* Major
Nice idea Hydrogen, but too expensive. Try Steele Environmental’s surfactant-based diesel fuel conditioner to get operating savings today with no Capex engine modifications required— and oh, emissions reductions today at no cost given operating savings. Then to really lower emissions with fuel savings, you can use www.Thunderstorm.tech to use plasma to disintegrate emissions. No need for Hydrogen, Ammonia for ships, disestablished trucks and trains with Thunderstorm. How many other technologies are out there that are economically and technically feasible today?
Unkind comments by Michael here about the guest speaker. I thought he was very measured and succinct. Moreover he made his fortune investing in iron-ore when most doubted it made sense and is putting his money where his mouth is
now