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Tennant Reed's avatar

If the numbers claimed by Terraform are both correct and pre-subsidy, post subsidy they will be stonkingly profitable and can be expected to grow like topsy. However I *think* the numbers are actually post-subsidy. One to watch, but with a skeptical eye!

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Parlons Futur's avatar

Dear Michael,

I'm a big fan of your work, but this time I'm afraid you may be too quick to throw the baby with the bath water, so to speak. I'll explain, read on.

All that you're saying about TES' particularly bad approach makes sense, especially their proposed project in Shawinigan, Quebec, as detailed by engineer Paul Martin.

But it doesn't have to be the same for e-fuels at large. You're for instance very dismissive of Terraform Industries without going into the specifics.

It's worth looking at what Terraform Industries is doing, especially after their latest demo. And rest assured, I'll worry here about thermodynamics, engineering and economics.

Let's talk first about engineering and economics.

They follow a simple playbook. Adapt a known industrial process to ultra-cheap solar power by a) radically reducing capex to compensate for lowered utilization and b) developing processes that are robust to variations in power due to weather, as well as diurnal and seasonal power shifts.

They're betting on the continued decline of solar PV cost (a fair assumption, right?). As such, they're not looking at the most efficient systems, but the cheapest, they're happy with low efficiency as that means lower capex per unit of output. And it makes it easier financially then to work with intermittent power 12 hours a day on average. Their systems have been tested successfully to work on and off.

What that means is that while you write "Even the biggest promoters of Direct Air Capture (DAC) of CO2 are only hoping to get to $300/TCO2 in the next 5-10 years", Terraform Industries' proprietary direct air capture (DAC) system concentrates CO2 in the atmosphere today for less than $250 per ton.

That's today, the state of the art, as detailed here following their latest demo. "How? Our DAC capex costs <$600/T-year-CO2." https://terraformindustries.wordpress.com/2024/04/01/terraform-makes-carbon-neutral-natural-gas/

They're assuming a solar PV DC electricity cost of $20/MWh, 12 hours per day.

And these figures can only go down. This is what you'll get for their first product, the Terraformer, which is only of 1MW of power and designed to last 5 years! We're not talking about a gigantic plant to be amortized across 30 years. The machine will occupy as much space as 2 containers.

Let's talk about the electrolyser: it converts solar power at $20/MWh 12hours/day into hydrogen with current production costs at less than $2.50 per kg of H2. How? Their electrolyzer capex costs <$100/kW. It's been tested successfully to work intermittently. And again, this is for their Terraformer of 1MW of power, it's not reached because of some crazy scale, though of course to get scale one can simply add more Terraformers.

The cells are operated at atmospheric pressure, so there’s no need for any kind of pressure containment vessel. The oxygen stream is vented directly, while the hydrogen stream is moved through large, low pressure tubes directly to the adjacent reactor.

What's brilliant about that approach is that the CO2 filtered from the air and the H2 produced don't need to be compressed, stored, cooled down or transported far, it's consumed as it's being produced at the place of production to make pipeline grade natural gas. The reactor uses no rare or expensive catalysts.

At current pace, solar PV electricity LCOE will get down to $10/MWh and below before 2030 in the best places, and almost anywhere on Earth south of Denmark before 2040. So gradually e-methane and other e-fuels like e-kerosene will get cheaper than imported fossil fuels, not today nor tomorrow sure, but gradually and then suddenly on our way to 2040.

And what about thermodynamics?

Yeah, it's only 30% efficient power to methane, as per their founder Casey Handmer.

So yes, if we steal green electricity from the grid to feed such processes while we could instead power ground transport, and home as well as industrial heat way more efficiently, that would be a shame indeed, fully agreed!

But it doesn't have to be the case!

As you're fully aware, the limiting factor right now is not our ability to manufacture solar panels and install solar farms, it's our ability to connect them to the grid! So we could totally first feed the grid with as much solar farms it can absorb, to prioritize what's more efficient thermodynamically (electrifying ground transport and heat) and then in parallel build off-grid solar farms to power such e-fuels processes! It's super welcome, even if subsidized at first, as it will help speed up even more our going down the learning curve!

This is how we'll make deep sea shipping and aviation carbon-neutral and allow them to grow in the 21st century to bring convenience to 9 billion people.

So I'm afraid dear Michael you may have been to quick to dismiss Terraform Industries and e-fuels production at large.

As you've had TES’s CEO Marco Alverá on your podcast, it's only fair to invite Casey Handmer as well to give him a chance to make a better (the best?) case for e-fuels. I'm in touch with him so I can connect you two, let me know :)

thomasjestin@gmail.com

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