The Third Coming of Lord Turner
It has become a tradition on Cleaning Up that we close the year with a chat with Lord Turner, CEO of the Energy Transitions Commission. He's a finance and energy guru, and a great communicator. Enjoy!
Looking back on 2024
It’s always a pleasure to speak with Adair, or Lord Turner of Ecchinswell, to give him his full title. He and I first met when we both worked at McKinsey & Co in London., where he was a Director and I was a minion. Adair went on to have a stellar career as a banker, Director General of the CBI, financial regulator, author and first chair of the UK’s Climate Change Committee, before becoming chair of the Energy Transitions Commission in 2016.
Listen now to Episode 190, the season’s closer of Cleaning Up: The Third Coming of Lord Turner
As per last year, our conversation was a rapid canter through the main aspects of the net zero transition. And as per last year, there are only a few areas where there is a cigarette-paper between us - not because we sing off the same ideological song-sheet, but because we follow the same data.
Also as per last year, Adair and I remain optimistic that we are eventually going to get to net zero, though not quickly enough. I gave up on reaching global net zero by 2050 (as required in order to keep the planet to 1.5C of warming) in about 2018 - just as the IPCC was publishing its report on the dangers of exceeding 1.5C. Adair seems to have “kept 1.5 alive” in his heart for longer, but this year he said the quiet part out loud: he’s expecting the world to get there around 2070 or 2080, which is broadly in line with my long-held view.
Will we stop burning stuff? Yes, because it almost never makes thermodynamic sense to do so. Will we stop burning stuff worldwide by 2050? No, because that is now less than one asset-lifetime away in many industries. (Before you @ me, please understand that I don’t celebrate the failure to hit net zero 2050 or keep temperature increases to 1.5C, but I can only operate in the world as it is, not as one might like it to be)
What I found particularly striking in this year’s conversation with Adair was the contrast between the optimism with which we both view the trends in a number of clean solutions - solar, batteries and EVs in particular - and the pessimism with which we view the politics and geopolitics of the next few years - which seems replete with wars, populism and macroeconomic challenges.
So while we seem to be on the dawn of the Solar Age, we also seem to have lost the argument over climate change (at least for the moment).
Anyway, I hope you enjoy episode.
Make sure you watch or listen to The Third Coming of Lord Turner, Episode 190 of Cleaning Up, which brings to a close Season 13 and the year
And, in case you have not done so yet, also make sure you read last week’s Thoughts of Chairman Michael: Review of 2024: Geopolitical Drama, Cleaning Up Relaunched, And More...
You can see previous year-end round-ups with Adair, Lord Turner of Ecchinswell, here:
Episode 148: The Second Coming of Lord Turner
Looking ahead to 2025
Yesterday Bryony and I recorded the first episode of Season 14 of Cleaning Up, which will air on Wednesday 8th January. It was a delightful romp through the issues that the world of clean energy and net zero will be facing next year - the good, the bad, the unknowable and the downright horrible. You won’t want to miss it.
We’ll be promoting a couple of episodes from the back catalogue over the break. My chat with Amory Lovins, the Einstein of Energy Efficiency (Episode 68), and Bryony’s first ever episode with Professor Naomi Oreskes, Lifting the Curtain on Climate Change Denial (Episode 141).
Both episodes seem supremely relevant today. Amory because whatever happens in politics or geopolitics, however ice the headwinds facing climate action may be, saving energy means saving money, and that’s always A Good Thing. And Naomi because, well, her findings on how opposition to climate action is funded and fomented could hardly be more important right now, not just in the US and UK, but also during the upcoming general elections in Australia and Canada.
And so…
So that brings Cleaning Up’s year to an end, it has been a really extraordinary one, what with the relaunch, the tripling of traffic, the creation of our Leadership Circle, so many great guests, and above all such a great response from our growing audience.
I want to thank the team behind it - Jo Jagger, Oscar Boyd, Alex McInerny, Jamie Oliver (the video guy, not the chef), my co-host Baroness Bryony Worthington and chair of our new Editorial Committee James Cameron (the climate guy not the Titanic guy).
I will be working on and off over the break, between bouts of skiing and eating, and I have a few gems I am looking forward to sharing with you if I can get them finished. 2024 might hold a few final surprises…
Selah.
If you are enjoying listening to/watching Cleaning Up, please recommend it to your friends, family and colleagues. Our audience is growing, and you can help! And don’t forget to subscribe to Cleaning Up’s own newsletter: CleaningUpPod.Substack.com.
"What I found particularly striking in this year’s conversation with Adair was the contrast between the optimism with which we both view the trends in a number of clean solutions - solar, batteries and EVs in particular - and the pessimism with which we view the politics and geopolitics of the next few years - which seems replete with wars, populism and macroeconomic challenges."
That sums up my own take, better than I could say it; unbounded optimism for ingenuity and innovation on the technology side and deep pessimism for the politics. The people holding the highest Offices of trust, where the duty lies prefer lies over truth.